People and Places

CBSCM: Mapping Black Social Dance - Round 1 - Stepping/Bopping

MODERATED BY MASHAUNE HARDY

DOMINIQUE BOYD RILEY: I just want to first say how grateful I am to be here with you all. Seeing some of my favorite people in the dance floor in the audience right now. And some of my corkers, and Dave who is super cool and a legend. I got started or exposed - that’s what I should say - I was exposed to stepping as a child. My father … was a bopper and then became a stepper. I would always see steppin’ in plain sight at home. I would see him doing the moves in the kitchen, or I would see him in the hallway. When he was getting ready for stepper sets, he would ask me, “Should I wear this tie with these shoes?” He would have these bright green jackets and matching shoes. It was just like so cool to help him pick out his socks … to get ready. I was exposed in that kind of way as a child. [1:21] I didn’t really know what he was doing, but just kind of knew that this is what we do. On holidays, my aunts and uncles were always stepping. Y’all are from Chicago, you know. Holidays, birthday parties, whatever, it’s just kind of something that’s happening. You don’t really pay attention to it because you’re so familiar with it. So when I went to college, I went to school in DC, HU, and every time Maze or “before I let go,” one of those songs would come on, everyone from Chicago would start steppin’, or doing that 6-count little cross thing or whatever, so I was like, “Oh, I gotta learn that!” I was from the suburbs, but I knew steppin’, the movement looked familiar to me. I did the cross step and … be able to just blend in.

When I got home from school, my mother had actually learned how to step. My parents started stepping together, so I was like, “Hmm, this is different! Daddy used to do it on his own growing up, but now y’all are doing it together.” She was like, “Yeah, I started taking a class.” My father had a really good friend named Bill. Bill, like you said, in the 2000s, about when I went to school, Bill started teaching everybody in the suburbs how to step. Because of that, my parents were able to start stepping together. When they started doing it together, I was like, “I wanna learn too!” So I started taking some of Bill’s classes, just a little something to be able to get by. When I would travel, I traveled to Oakland a few times and my father connected me with a few of his folks in Oakland. So I was able to go to a few sets there. I connected with Dave maybe six or seven years ago at the Logan Center and I was like, “We gotta have a stepping class here for the summer!” [3:40]

Dave taught some really awesome workshops with us a few years … It was always something that I was around. Being a dancer, I was always learning other people’s forms of dancing. It was really kinda in COVID, where I was having these conversations with my father, having these conversations with my aunt, and talking about the different origins of steppin’. I was like, “You know, we really gotta document your journey specifically, just more of it, for the sake of preservation.” I’m really excited to hear about projects like the Black Social Dancing Map and folks like Dave, who are continuing to make sure that the origins of the stories stay consistent and teaching teachers. We’re working on a documentary right now documenting my father’s journey specifically, but we’ll be able to bring the larger history as well.

DAVE MAXX: Hello! Getting into steppin’ for me, for most Chicagoans, a lot of us think we know what it is and if you from the hood, you know what stepping is, you got your little moves that you do. My first experience was back in the early ‘90s. In 1993, I went to a club called Seagulls on Michigan Avenue. The night that we want, was with me and some friends from work. I got to dancin’ and doing what I thought steppin’ was. People were getting on the floor and I thought they were getting on the floor because I was doing so great. My friends were cheering me on from the table. It wasn’t until that it was over and the host of the party told me: “we don’t do that foolishness in here,” that I realized that I didn’t know what steppin’ really was. Maybe six months later, a friend of mine took me to the 50 Yard Line – some of y’all might know that as El Matador from back in the day. At that venue, I saw a brother dance with a young lady so beautifully and his neck never moved. He was like the coolest guy in the world. As a result, I said, I gotta learn this. He introduced me to a gentleman by the name of Calvin Barnes. Calvin Barnes as I later learned was one of the old Mambo Kings from New York, who used to dance in the Palladium Ballroom along with Eddie Torres and some other people. I later found out that he was a Grammy award winning percussionist, all this stuff he never told me.

I got into the dance, it ended up being something fun. [6:57] It was just the beauty of it and the reflection of Black love, and I had to have that. That was how I got into it. I was blessed to know him and so many of the elders in the dance. One of those people, who was one of the people who was committed to making sure steppin’ survived the disco era, because there was concern about that happening. In fact, he made this t-shirt! He has a hat shop on the Southside that a lot of the steppers go to to get their clothes. It’s funny listening to D'onminique talk about that because I remember when I first really learned, I worked in a print shop, doing dance moves between copiers just to practice, or when it was time to get dressed. I dress like this now, my wife has thrown away all ofthe red suits and carrying on that I used to wear. She said that that stuff can’t be around no more, but I had that stuff. [8:13]

If you go on YouTube, there’s a video where I got this red thing, we’re throwing glitter and all that stuff at a contest. That suit is gone. It’s been an awesome journey. Having a hand in the expansion and preservation of Black culture, I am so thankful that Meida invited me to do a project with her a couple years ago; that D'onminique invited me to do a project with her a couple years ago. That culmination leads to opportunities like this and I’m thankful to be a part of it.

MASHAUNE HARDY: It’s really wonderful to think about how dance has touched your soul and has integrated into your life. D'onminique, something you said was, “My father started out as a bopper and then became a stepper.” Can either one of you – or both of you – elaborate on that? I’m over here like, “what is the difference?”

BOYD: I’ can explain a little bit. I;ll start and then he’ll really explain. From what I’ve been told, bop is the six-count, the old steppers and then sort of the newer … when stepping became, in the ‘90s or so, it started to go into an eight-count. My father, he still does a lot of the bop, the six count, but my mom since she learned a little later, she does more of that eight-count. That’s what I know of it.

MAXX: Boppers say, once you a bopper, you always a bopper. One of the things that a lot of people don’t know is that the word “steppin’” is actually a slang term for stepping – it’s not the real name of the dance. The original name of the dance was “the bop.” What we do today, back in the early ‘70s was called “the new bop.” The reason they called it the new bop was because the beat – the primary beat they danced on changed and the direction of the dance slightly changed as well. When we talk about count, count a lot of times ends up being a confusing thing, where count is actually a musical term but steppin’ is eight steps. In the ‘90s when classes started, the original classes started with the six-count concept but it wasn’t something we focused on. Some competition ensued and the eight-count thing popped up. It was really counting the cadence of eight steps as opposed to it being eight counts. Eight counts would be lindy hop, which is ten steps. The thing that was genius, and many of us who started classes didn’t recognize, when we started classes, was that the elders of the dance had already put an awesome program in place for us to follow. That was the original count, which was “one-two-three, one-two-three, one-two.” The beauty of that was that all of the beats corresponded with the ones. What that made sure of was that people didn’t learn to dance to numbers, which is what’s happened since the admin of classes. Sometimes, you’ll see newer dances and people will ask, “why does it seem like they’re not dancing to the song?” Because they’re dancing to the cadence that they learned, but some of us went back, sometimes when we were challenged by the elders, went back to the original count. They had already laid the groundwork for us to be successful. We didn’t know it and it’s not what they planned, but it was an ingenious thing because you were able to let go of the count and listen to the music. [12:31]

Stepping is about the music, it’s about the feel; it’s about the little things that you experienced in a song that make you do certain things. When I was listening to D'onminique talk about her dad, I thought about when my kids were little, and their favorite song was Mother’s Finest “ I Can’t Believe” – If you can imagine a four year old and a six year old sitting up singing this song, to this day, it still means something to them. They thirty years old now, but that’s what the dance was about. So when we talk about those things, that’s the most important part: we’re identifying experiences and we’re being able to express them with music.

HARDY: Okay, I think I understand, but do you know what would be even better? If you gave me an example of some of this wonderful eight, six, bop, step, new bop, type situation. Would you like to take the floor?

Dancing until 16:02

HARDY: Thank you so much! Take a seat, y’all! I see you. One thing that I did notice while you were dancing, and being a dancer myself, I think about this… it appears that the connection that you can create, or generate, between the dancers, it’s a partner dance and it’s really something you have to pay attention to one another and so it seems like you can really create a nice shared connection and shared experience through it.

MAXX: I’m glad you noticed that. There is a very awesome man in New York from the Harlem swing dance, some of you will know. Historically you know him as one of the original George … Shorty White Lindy Hoppers. His name is Frankie Manning. He’s also one of the people who taught swing with Norman Miller to Imani [unintelligible] - [17:15]

Frankie Manning said something to me. I only got to talk to him one time before he passed. He said, “Every dance is a two-minute love affair. Make the love count.” So, really, every dance, in this aspect of social dance, is a relationship. You’re getting to a place where you’re sharing your interpretation, your feelings with a song. One of the other greats, guy by the name of Ice Ray Smith said, “You can’t dance to a song you don’t know because you can’t relate to it.” So when you dance to something that you can relate to, and you’re sharing it with a person, it’s no doubt that that experience is a relationship and it’s your opportunity to expose that to people who are watching and enjoying it right along with you.

BOYD: This time where I was, I don’t even know where it was, but it was this birthday party on the West side and this song came on – it was this cute little red space and we had a little table and red tablecloth. [18:29]

HARDY: A little houseparty!

BOYD: The song came on and I’ll never forget… my grandmother was like, “You gotta come to my friend’s 80th birthday party!” I’m like, “Grandma, I’m not going to the party.” Then I was like, alright I’ll go. We got there and her friend happened to be Shannon Brown, Monica’s husband’s grandmother, and so Monica was there and I’m sitting at the table like, “What is this girl? Is this your friend?!” This song came on there and we had a nice little groove. You both are absolutely right when songs have meaning and you do step into it every time you get on the floor.

HARDY: You guys gave some really good examples of memories and feelings. Now we’d like to look at a few memories that you’ve shown us of your experience in the stepping world.

[19:45] I am in what is commonly known in the dance community as “the zone.” It doesn’t matter who is around, in front of, behind or near… when the eyes close and the mouth makes that, we doin’ the thing. There are no questions asked, there are no answers given, we’re doin’ the thing. That’s what that is. And there are certain DJs in Chicago, certain house DJs, certain house songs that can instantly take me there, but there is also a way as a DJ, and really good DJs know this, that you can build the music no matter what song it is to take me there. That’s just me in the zone. This might be another We Love Soul party. I really liked We Love Soul parties. Again, in the zone. I had found a partner that you cannot see there, because that is very crucial when dancing. You want someone who is in the same space as you mentally who’s not going to ask you any kinda crazy questions on the floor, who’s not trying to get your number, who is not trying to find out any … we’re just here to dance. You gonna look at me and I’m gonna look at you and we gonna get there.

MAXX: [21:14] This is 2004. This is the year … the two trophies on the table are my first World’s Largest Steppers contest wins. That DJ is the late Herb Kent, who was one of the major DJs on the stepper scene. And so this particular event, we honored him, a couple of other DJs, about twenty of the legendary steppers and impacted the journey I made in steppin’. There were about three hundred people at this particular event. 99% of them are not from Chicago. Those were people that were brought to Chicago to have the real Chicago experience and to see if what we taught them actually worked. During that weekend, it wasn’t until the third day that people were here … there were four girls from New York, beautiful young ladies, and everybody’s dancing with them … they’re dancing with people from California and what have you. One guy says to a girl, “Why is it that you feel like you gotta talk like you’re from Brooklyn or somewhere?” And she says, “Because I’m from Brooklyn!” And it was at that moment that people from here realized that people in other cities were learning how to step because it hadn’t moved out. In Atlanta, you would see remnants of it there because you’d see so many transplants in Atlanta from Chicago, but it hadn’t officially moved to Atlanta yet. But this is that event I’m giving his gift, his plaque… Also, that night, I gave my steppin’ instructor his trophy. The reason I did that was because back then, you didn’t learn stepping in classes, you learned it on the side of the floor. [23:22] So you had to learn how to fit in, how to be a part of the community… a lot of times, those dancers were rejected. I gave him my trophy to show him that the work that he had done would move forward … There’s a funny story about how I ended up teaching steppin’, but we’re not going to go into that. But, I was thankful and grateful and I wanted to make him cry, which we did, he tried to come up on me, uh uh stay out there and cry. It was an awesome day and that was one of the most proud moments of all the things I’ve done.

[24:03] This photo … These are the people who were the boots on the ground for getting steppin’ across the country. A lot of times people want to give the people in Chicago credit, but the reality is I wouldn’t be able to do the things that I was able to do if these people weren’t the boots on the ground to make it work. The first couple of people are from Detroit, then Chicago, then Oakland, then Detroit again, and Oakland again, then Cleveland, Ohio, New York, Detroit, Brooklyn, NY, LA, Chicago again, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago LA … the gentleman on the back end, he did our first class in London and so that was our first stretch over across the pond to really take the dance internationally.

[25:06] This photo is part of an organization that I’m a part of called On My Own, which supports fathers and the need for us to be present. This photo matters when it comes to steppin’, because this is what the original steppers’ fashion was. It was important that we created images that were good representatives of how we saw ourselves. So that photo is important. I usually don’t wear a hat when I’m dancing. One of the old things, to give you a little history on steppin’, on the dancefloor, gentleman should not wear their hats because you’re dancing with a lady. The coolest thing I ever saw was a lot of times when the guys would remove their hats, their partner would hold their hat doing the dance so you would see her shifting this hat back and forth doing the dance to different hands; it was awesome to see, but it never stopped the dance moves. It was beautiful to watch. But this is just speaking to the fashion of steppin’.

BOYD: [26:24] This is mom and dad and I want to speak on that fluidity piece, like Dave was talking about, like you can have a hat in your hand and it still be a part of everything that’s going on. I just love this song so I’m just going to be quiet … it’s by Marzette Griffin … So what’s happening is they’re stepping at my sister’s baby shower and no one’s paying them any attention but me with my cellphone. You’ll see my aunt get up and go get a piece of cake. But I’m like, “look at this beautiful moment that’s happening.” Speaking to that fluidity piece, it’s just something that’s in plain sight, but you might miss it because you’re so exposed to it. That’s why I’m just grateful to have that tender eye and I want to be able to capture and present …look at mommy’s happy smile. It’s just that love piece. As he was speaking to earlier, when we went off to school, they might have been on the brinks of breaking up, but they started steppin’ together and it definitely brought their chemistry back together. It’s a real thing. There was something you were saying earlier, talking about that partnership and relationship piece, that’s something I was thinking in terms of bringing it into schools for young people so they can work on that leadership, leading and following aspects of it and relationship and nurturing and building those memories together; learning how to be sacred with one another and gentle. There’s so many different elements that can be passed down through this dance. [28:58]

HARDY: I want to thank you and I appreciate you for opening up your spirit and talking about what makes you tick and the social dance that is a big part of your life, the art of bop and new bop. Look at me! I’m excited. I want to say thank you very much and if everyone would give a wonderful round of applause to D'onminique Boyd Riley and Dave Maxx for sharing with us today.